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I walked not in the way of righteousness - part four

Dan — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:35:42 -0600

Before I begin at my beginning I need to lay one more piece of pipe to my story...Douglas McArthur Parsons - my so called ‘retarded’ brother. I have learned in life that “Perception is Reality”. What you believe is your ‘truth’. My Mom and Dad never could perceive Dougy as anything but ‘retarded’. So that is how they treated him. Sadly, since that was the way he was treated - that’s how he acted. Truth is he wasn’t/isn’t/or-ever-will-be ‘retarded’. You see I have a different perception of him. (Confused yet?) Doug began as the last fling for a G.I. going to the European theater during W.W.II. His birth mother was ‘slow’ mentally and did not understand she was pregnant until about her 8th month. Being ashamed of herself, she then hid it from everybody. Dougy was born in the outhouse, behind the house where she lived. After giving birth, she left him on the floor of the ‘privy’ while she went in the house and got some old rags to clean the mess up. Thinking the baby to be dead, she wrapped him up in the rags (umbilical cord still attached) and put the whole bundle in the trash can in the alley. Very shortly afterwards, a state social worker was walking up that same alley to visit a family further up the hill, as they say. Thinking she heard a cat squalling, she said to herself that if it was still there on her way back down she would let it out. The family she was going to see was gone so she headed back down the hill. She faintly heard the cat still squalling so she open the trashcan, saw the bloody rags and began looking for the noise maker. She found the baby, barely alive. She ran the 7 blocks to the hospital with the new born still wrapped in the rags and afterbirth. The nurses and doctor worked frantically to keep him alive. My Aunt Maud’s youngest child was in the same hospital for care. When Aunt Maud went to see her daughter, she passed by the baby room to look at the newborns and saw a bassinet without a name on it. Asking a nurse about the baby, she learned he had been abandoned and would be up for adoption. On her way home Aunt Maud stopped by to see Momma. She told Momma about the poor little baby and that she was going to adopt him. Being childless, Momma pleaded with her oldest sister to let her adopt the baby boy. When Momma went back to work after her lunch break, she told Daddy about the little baby that Maud had seen. He promised her that they could go see him after work. After they finished work, stopped to get a bite of dinner they went to the hospital. When they got to the baby room, Momma looked for the bassinet without a name and didn’t see it. Thinking the worse, she asked a nurse about the abandoned baby boy. The nurse went into the restricted room and consulted the nurse in charge of the babies. That nurse, smiling, came out to talk to Momma and Daddy. She pointed out to them the baby boy they were interested in. The nurses felt bad about calling him “the abandoned boy” or “orphaned boy” or “him” or “it” so they named him after the hero of the day - General Douglas McArthur. The nurse assured them that was only for the benefit of the nurses. They didn’t need to keep that name if they decided to adopt him. The nurse then said that because of the circumstances of his birth he was going to have ‘problems’. The Parsons’ decided before they got home that they wanted this child. Daddy called the hospital the next day and started the paperwork. A little over two weeks after that, they brought Dougy home. A month later it was finalized and Douglas McArthur Parsons was... When Dougy-Mac was about 9 months old, they found his “birth mother”. (Which is, in case you were wondering, how we found out the back story of his birth.) She did not want the baby back but had been told that Momma and Daddy owed her money because they adopted him. Daddy did have to restrain Momma or Doug might have been orphaned again. This girl showed up a couple of other times, never interested in Doug, but wanting a handout. Then she stopped coming by. They never saw her again. Douglas did have problems. It seemed that every illness known to man he dealt with before he was ten years old. Because of his poor care at birth his immune system was very weak. Also, one side of his body is smaller than the other. Other than those two ‘problems’ his physical development was fine. By the time for him to start school came, our parents knew he had a learning ‘problem’. In 1947 there was no special ed, or special learning teachers; if you couldn’t do the work you were ‘retarded’. Thus Dougy was labeled and people quit expecting anything of him - he delivered what they expected. In 1990 I worked for a special ed boarding school as the lead milieu therapist. As a favor to me, they tested Doug. What they found I knew or suspected all my life. Doug’s verbal I.Q. was within normal range. They could not get a gauge on his written I.Q. because (sarcasm alert) he was ‘retarded’ and could not be taught to write - so why waste valuable time on someone like him. It was discovered that Doug’s reading problem was because he was severely dyslexic. With all the advances they have had in education in the past 25 years, if Doug was born today, under the same circumstances, he could look forward to a normal life. Doug is a survivor. He made it through his birth, his sickly early life, growing up in Detroit, an alcoholic mother, a passive-aggressive Daddy, and a psychotic brother. He is doing fine.

I walked not in the way of righteousness - part three

Dan — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 11:23:00 -0600

It is about time for a disclaimer. Most of my family’s story is oral history. I have tried to get at least two accounts of incidents. Things I could not confirm by a second witness I regard as lore and have not included it. Besides, could you make some of this stuff up? My Grandfather, Hiram, is the only Grandparent I met. I saw him twice. The first time he didn’t acknowledge me; the second time he looked at me and said, “Who the h*ll are you?” Daddy proudly claimed me as his son. To which Hiram said, “Just so long as he isn’t mine.” Hiram died in 1965. My Grandmother on my Daddy’s side was known to the world as ‘Aunt Betty’. Even Daddy called her Aunt Betty. ‘Aunt’ Betty Hamilton loved people and people loved her back; she was everybody’s favorite Aunt. She was older than Hiram when they married. Nobody is sure why she married him, guess it goes back to that old adage - good girls love bad boys! Betty and Hiram had three children: Hogan, the oldest (he died in a coal mine accident when he was 20); a daughter, Melvina and Press, the youngest. After they divorced Aunt Betty married again, but it didn’t last because of her daughter’s resentment toward her new step-father. Betty died in 1943. All I know about my other Grandmother is that her name was Mary Blankenship Mathews, and she was bi-racial. Her Daddy was a freed slave and her Momma was Cherokee Indian. I would overhear my Mom and her sisters talking about her, but Momma nor my Aunts and Uncle would say anything more than that she was a good, brave lady. She and George Mathews had 5 children (4 daughters and a son): Maud, Beulah (Bootsy), Joe, Myrtle (Momma) and Leo (yes Aunt Leo was a girl). She left George and the children after the KKK burned a cross in their yard. Though she loved her family she didn’t want them hurt, so she left. She never married again and died in the late 1930’s. George Mathews was a short angry man. He was a doctor, more precisely, a circuit riding doctor. He tended to the coal camps and villages in mountainous Eastern Kentucky. Though he had no formal education, he understood the human body, was a sure hand in surgery and had a very good working knowledge of Homeopathic medicine. All Momma would ever say about his death was that the KKK had shot and killed him. One day, my Aunt Bootsy went into greater detail, which Momma would confirm before she died. It was one of those hot, sticky Southern Ohio evenings. We had spent the day cutting and hanging the last of the tobacco crop. I was exhausted, we all were exhausted. Dougy had stood in the bed of the trailer handing the sticks filled with tobacco stalks to Kathy. She was standing on a platform of hay about six feet off the ground. She would hand those to Daddy who was standing on a 4 inch pole approx. 10 feet off the ground. He would hold on to the pole above him, reach down, take the stick from her and hand it up to me. I was standing on the 4 inch pole Daddy was holding onto. I would take it from him and hang it between two poles about four feet above my head. Some of these sticks could weigh up to 200 lbs. Like I said we were all exhausted. Bootsy was staying with us on the farm and had cooked a good ol’ hillbilly meal (let the reader understand this to mean everything was fried in lard until crispy), which, when done right, is absolutely Yum-o (↤ look a Rachel Ray reference!) As Bootsy finished up the dishes, Daddy and Momma were in the living room, a Cincinnati Reds game was on TV; Dougy was sitting in the kitchen watching his TV and Kat and I were sitting at the dining room table talking. Bootsy came in and sat down to join our conversation. At some point she said something about her Daddy. When I told her that I didn’t know much about him, she told me to ask anything I wanted to ask about him and she would do her best to answer it. She didn’t sound surprised that Momma never talked about him. I told her that I wanted to know how he died. Bootsy took a deep breath; it was obvious she felt a little uncomfortable. This is the story she relayed. She said that it was lunch time, Aunt Maud had just been married a couple of months. She had married a Greek national who had been recruited from Greece to work on the Panama Canal. After it was done he had been recruited again, this time by a mining company to dig coal in Kentucky. They had known each other for a year, but Aunt Maud had to wait until George Mathews had remarried before she could wed. She was 18 years old. The rest of the family was seated around the table eating, when they heard a voice from the yard calling my Grandfather out. Seems the KKK was upset over the fact that he had given a black man a small piece of property. This man worked in a shoe shine shop my Grandfather owned. George gave it to him for his “birthday”. This former slave was the first black to own property in Pike County Kentucky. Granddad walked across the cabin, picked up his double-barreled shotgun next to the door and stepped out on the porch. Bootsy 17; Joe 16; Momma 14 and Leo 12 went to the windows to watch the confrontation. As George stepped off the porch into the red-dog clay yard, it all broke loose. The man in the yard fired, missed Granddad and hit the house just above the window where Bootsy and Aunt Leo was standing. There were men in the trees on each side of the yard and one on the roof of the house. This shot seemed more of a signal for the others to start shooting because they did. When Granddad was shot in the back by the man on the house, Uncle Joe and Momma charged from the house; Aunt Bootsy held Aunt Leo and their step-mother back from the door. Uncle Joe, who had a pistol, ran straight to his Daddy and threw himself on top of him to protect him from anymore wounds; it would prove to be too late. Momma jumped on Granddad’s shotgun and unloaded both barrels at the man on top of the house, Bootsy heard the man hit the roof and roll off, then saw him hit the ground - dead. Momma jumped up and ran to were her Daddy had dropped the pouch of shells for the shot gum. She hit the ground, hard, having been shot in the hip with buck shot. She loaded the gun and started looking in the trees for someone to kill. Uncle Joe, who had been shot in the back had unloaded his pistol into the man in the yard, reloaded and was searching the trees also. When they saw no further movement in the trees, Uncle Joe called for Bootsy and his step-mother. Their step-mom rolled Uncle Joe off of Granddad, and started checking his wounds, Bootsy was trying to check out Momma but she would have nothing of it. She crawled over to her daddy, rolled him over, checked his eyes and slid her lap under his head. By this time Aunt Leo had drawn a bucket of water and lugged it out to Bootsy. Momma tore a piece off of the bottom of her dress and getting it wet, started wiping the blood and dirt off of her Daddy’s face. He pretty much bled out there in the yard. Bootsy said that he had been hit about 6 times. They were able to get Granddad into the house but he died before 1 o’clock. * * * * * At this point my Daddy sat straight up in his chair and hollered for Bootsy and Kat. We all ran into the Living room, Bootsy was asking Momma what was wrong. There were tears running down the side of Mommas face. Bootsy, Kathy and I were there because the doctors had sent Momma home to die. She had one whole lung removed and 2/3’s of the other because of cancer. The chemo had given her another four months but the cancer had become aggressive again. The doctors kept her pretty much sedated. She had not said anything to anybody except Kathy, in the two months she had been home. Through the fog of her pain, drugs and depression she had heard Bootsy’s retelling of the day they lost their dad. The memory of that pain and heartbreak permeated the fog and she was that little girl again, painfully sitting on that hard red-dog clay with the head of her Daddy in her lap, watching him die. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The night before Momma died, she and I had a great conversation. She had come to herself at about 2 AM. She wanted to know why she was in the hospital (pneumonia), and what had been going on. I caught her up on everything. She was truly embarrassed that she had not known any of us, except Kathy. I asked her about the story Aunt Bootsy had told us. She verified it and added that their step-mother moved out that evening and married the brother of the man that was killed on the roof of the house that day, three days later. She then said they both disappeared two weeks after that and no one ever saw them again. She got a sly look on her face and commented that the “hills hold alot of secrets”. I asked her what she meant by that, she said she would tell me that night when I came back. Momma died around at 4 that afternoon. The hills still hold that secret!!!

I walked not in the way of righteousness - part two

Dan — Sun, 2 Mar 2008 21:26:10 -0700

My mom and dad married each other on the rebound. My mom (Nyla Myrtle Mathews) was unceremoniously dumped by her fiancé when he found out her mother (my Grandmother) was bi-racial. My Grandmother’s father was a freed slave and her mother was Cherokee. When that came up in conversation, my momma’s fiancé walked out on her. My dad (Press Parsons) had been dating my mom’s younger sister for a couple of month’s when he met this sweet little girl for whom he fell head over heels. They planned to marry but her father put a stop to it. He said that daddy was nothing more than poor white trash and forbade her to marry him. These two events occurred on the same day. Each broken-heart went to their favorite “speak-easy” for a drink (Pike County, Kentucky, where this transpired was and still is dry.). It happened to be the same place. Myrt and Press worked together so they knew each other, not very well, but they were acquainted. After commiserating about their situation for a couple of hours/bottles they decided to show everybody who had wronged them - by getting married. This was a bad idea for two reasons. First of all one should never plot revenge when they are drunk; it is too easy to overlook small and many details. Secondly, they didn’t know each other’s family background. Let me say quickly, my Daddy wasn’t prejudiced at all. The sweet little girl with the stern daddy I mentioned above was herself black (as was her daddy). Race wasn’t an issue, family loyalty was. Let’s now back up a generation or two and pick up “my story” were we left off last month. Most people are aware of the Hatfield-McCoy feud. It captured the nation’s attention in the mid to latter part of the 19th century. The Hatfield clan lived on the West Virginia side of the Tug River Branch and the McCoy’s lived on the Kentucky side. They didn’t like each other (understatement!!). Anderson Hatfield fought for the Confederacy and was the Patriarch of the Hatfield family and Randle McCoy, Patriarch of the McCoy family saw his sons fight for the Union. That was only the foundation. Anderson was a successful timber merchant, Randle tried but, not so much. That they were both hard, self-sufficient men who played by their own terms should go without saying. That they both raised large wild families to which they were very loyal - oh, yes. I am not trying to defend or make light of these murderous men or there ‘kin’. However the people they were responsible for killing and the other things they did was all a part of who they were and what our country was at the time. This was the Appalachian Mountains! The Hatfield-McCoy feud ran off and on for nearly 30 years. This is a brief timeline with added history dates for comparison. 1863 *Anderson Hatfield forms guerrilla band. Raids and thefts follow between McCoy’s and Hatfield’s. *West Virginia statehood. *President Lincoln issues Emancipation Proclamation (Jan 1). 1865 *First death in feud - Asa Harmon McCoy. No prosecution. *President Lincoln shot by John Wilkes Booth (Apr 4). Civil War ends in May. 1871 *Great fire destroys Chicago (Oct 8-11). 1876 *"Tom Sawyer" by Mark Twain is published. 1877 *Ulysses Simpson Grant is elected president. 1878 *Randolph McCoy accuses Floyd Hatfield of stealing his pig. Bill Staton's testimony in court later wins for Floyd Hatfield. *The first commercial telephone exchange opens in New Haven, CT, (Jan 28). 1880 *Bill Staton murdered by Paris and Sam McCoy in June. *Sam McCoy tried in September for Staton death; acquitted. *Randle’s daughter Roseanna McCoy and Anderson’s son Johnse Hatfield meet. *She leaves to live with him at Hatfield cabin. 1881 *Roseanna returns home, and then moves to aunt's cabin where Johnse is captured by McCoy boys. Roseanna's ride to Anderson's saves Johnse's life. *Pregnant Roseanna returns to Randle's home, catches measles, miscarries baby, then moves to Pikeville. *Johnse marries her cousin Nancy McCoy on May 14. 1882 *Ellison Hatfield fatally wounded by Bud, Tolbert and Pharmer McCoy on August 9. *After Hatfield dies, the trio is tied to bushes and executed. *Jeff McCoy killed on banks of the Tug. 1883 *The Brooklyn Bridge opens (May 24). 1887 *Kentucky governor appoints Frank Phillips to capture the McCoy boys' murderers. 1888 *New Year's Day raid on Randle McCoy's cabin leaves Alifair and Calvin dead, home burned to ground. *Roseanna McCoy, less than 30 years old, dies in Pikeville 1889 *Trial of Hatfield clan in McCoy murders begins. *Johnstown, Pa., flood 2,200 lives lost (May 31). 1890 *Ellison Mounts executed for Alifair McCoy's murder. (Feb 18). *Ellis Island opens (Dec 31). So what does any of this have to do with my Momma and Daddy? About two weeks after they were married, Momma and Daddy were sitting around the breakfast table before work when it came out in conversation that...well, let me first say that Frank Phillips (the man mentioned above in 1887) won the parole of 6 young men who were in prison: four for various crimes; two were on death row in Fort Knox (before the gold) for committing murder. He formed a posse with these men and they acted as special Marshall’s for the State of Kentucky. Their sole purpose was to hunt down Hatfield’s and bring them to trial (wink, wink). One of those men Phillips got from Fort Knox was a 20 year old named Hiram, ‘Hi’ to his few friends. He was a wretched son from a righteous family. In fact he had three brothers and they would become preachers; two Baptist and one Christian Church. When he was 19 he walked into a Saloon and gunned down two men in cold blood and the first Lawman to make the scene. He never said why, ever (he lived to be 81). He sat silent at his trial and his first words came after he was sentenced to death; when he threatened to kill the judge and jury. This angry, 20 year old murderer was Hiram Parsons, my grandfather. Even though my Daddy was not proud of his father, he idolized Frank Phillips. Phillips himself had spent time in an Oklahoma jail for robbery and attempted murder. Daddy had a love for “the Old West”, that wasn’t really that old when he was a boy. Daddy said that Phillips had that Cowboy presence about him. I really didn’t understand that until we moved to New Mexico. My Momma, on the other hand...was the Great-Niece of Anderson Hatfield. She despised anything McCoy; she was brought up believing that the only good McCoy was one you could brag about shooting! She despised Frank Phillips, and those associated with him. She hated - because she was raised to and until the day she died, she was a loyal member of the Hatfield clan. LET THE FEUD CONTINUE!!!! From that point on, Momma and Daddy never quite got along. They cared for each other, loved each other, but fought almost all the time. That was the first thing that came between Press and Myrtle Parsons - Family Loyalties. This is a recurrent theme in “my story”. Momma was very loyal to her brothers and sisters to the harm of her marriage relationship and the relationship she had with her sons, especially me. Daddy felt that kind of loyalty to Momma but not to any of his blood kin, except for Doug and me. My early life was a lot of Daddy saying “How high?” on his way up; then complaining about it behind Momma’s back. Not that he necessarily complained about jumping as much as not being appreciated for it. Momma’s family always came first, over me and Daddy (Dougy was a different matter). That was something that was hard to reconcile in my head. I was her son, the child she was told she could never have; even at a very young age I knew she should be taking care of me instead of my cousins. I couldn’t understand why they were more important than I. It got down to the fact that I was a Parsons, the grandson of Hiram, who rode with Frank Phillips, who rounded up Hatfields. I never had a chance! Next - a story Momma would never tell me and my grandmother - Aunt Betty! "I walked not in the way of righteousness.But the Almighty God, who sits in the court of heaven, granted what I did not deserve." - Constantine (280-337)

I walked not in the way of righteousness - part one

Dan — Sun, 2 Mar 2008 21:18:55 -0700

"I walked not in the way of righteousness. … But the Almighty God, who sits in the court of heaven, granted what I did not deserve." - Constantine (280-337) Just day’s after becoming a Christian, we sang Amazing Grace at the Bethel Church of Christ, Bethel, Ohio (elevation 892 feet) and I understood for the first time, what it meant. I finally understood what it all meant. I saw grace not just as a word used in church but as a gift from The God who cared about this homicidal 15 year old. I felt grace in the freedom that my soul had...I was still struggling with the sin in my life but I felt freedom from the bonds that had held me. I was no longer controlled by it, just tortured by it (there is a difference!) I didn’t understand, but for some reason...I was worth something to somebody. That Somebody was the Creator of the universe...That is some heavy stuff - that is... When the LORD opened the door for Kathy and me to go into residential child care, it was at a facility named Edgewood Ranch. It was in the middle of an orange grove on the edge of Orlando, FL. We had absolutely no clue as to how to handle a cottage full of abused and/or neglected girls. We knew nothing of their backgrounds, just what they would tell us (and that wasn’t always the truth) but we did our best. We noticed from time to time we would say something that was, in our opinion totally harmless, but might get a huge emotional reaction from one of the girls. We didn’t have time to put much thought into it because there were kids for which to care. As we came in contact with their parents, they would feed us bits and pieces of the girl’s background (sometimes just seeing the mom would explain alot) and things started making a little more sense. I understand, now, why the directors of the Ranch didn’t give us that information themselves. It is always easy to pre-judge people by hearing where they have been and what they were exposed to. They also hired concerned Christian couples - not necessarily “Child Care Professional” couples- but capable of doing the job none the less. The background of these young ladies could have been used against them in the wrong hands. Let the reader understand. As I continued in Child Care in different companies, Kathy having decided that she was not necessarily cut out for residential child care, I gained more training and understanding of the overall picture of a child’s life. I came to understand how their history and their parent’s history factored into why they behaved the way they did. Alot of things became clear to me about values, ethics, history, community and relationships. These factors, as well as the child’s individual appearance and any physical handicaps or disabilities they might have - real or imagined - made up the essence of the child’s personality. (Stands to reason - it makes up our personality also!!) As my learning progressed, I was more able to, not only write individual treatment plans but also, write house plans. I was able to write a treatment plan for the entire cottage milieu taking into account the “personality quirks” of the 20-25 residents in the program. Kathy feels that the emotional breakdown I had in 1990 came from my living inside the heads of 20+ severely emotionally disturbed teens with whom I was working. The average “shelf life” of a Residential Child Care Worker was 18 months - The LORD allowed me 13 years. He also led me on a journey of truth about myself during this time. The question can be asked - Did I learn this about myself because I went through this or did I go through this so I could learn about myself? Good question!!! Kids learn early on to go for the throat, especially when they have been emotionally abused. When they have been damaged to the point of a severe emotional disability they go for the throat with a chain saw. If the Residential Child Care Worker (RCCW) has any emotional problems or hang-ups - be assured the child will pick and pick until they find it. When it is learned, they have a great weapon against the RCCW. Unless that staff member deals with their own personality flaws - they are ‘dead meat’ when it comes to dealing with the residents. When ever a RCCW has to discipline a resident the first thing the resident will do is go for that weakness. I did not want to be controlled that way, so I prayed that the Holy Spirit would give me an illumination of my past and what I should change and peace with the things I could not change. This is one of those prayers you want to be careful about praying (like for patience) because you might not be ready for the answers you are going to get. It is like having the pure light of God illuminate your every flaw, weakness and fear. I knew I was not flawless (my Momma made sure of that), I also thought I had a handle on my weaknesses (I had no real idea), and I thought I had no fears, after all, I grew up on the poor part of the west side of Detroit, in the Hillbilly Haven!! When I was 12 years old, I was staring down men twice my age. When I was 14 I was ‘warlord’ for a street gang. I shouldn’t be afraid of anything! I learned that it is not always the big things that can disable us in fear but the little hidden things that can and will paralyze us. I have been asked why I am so personal in my writing. Why do I talk about all the unlit corners in my life? People do not want to see weakness in their ‘Preacher-Man’. They want to see a strong, dynamic ‘pretty boy’ who can help them into heaven (“If just a little of his righteousness can drip on me, I will have it made.”) I believe that we can not understand the full joy of our salvation until we understand why we had to be saved. Any part of our failings; any part of our weakness; any part of our shame that we do not want to open up to Christ is something that we have put between ourselves and our Savior. If I am open to you about myself, I am not hiding it from Jesus! In therapy sessions we encouraged our clients to tell us their ‘story’. Over the next several months I will share with you my story. Most stories start back 2 generations, with Grandparents. Therefore, my story starts in the Appalachian Mountains, on the Tug River and a family named Hatfield...

Mere Christianity: Leaders' Notes - Book 4/Chapter 11

havoc — Mon, 24 Sep 2007 00:03:27 -0600

Parent: Mere Christianity: Leaders' Notes Series

Buy a copy of Mere Christianity from Amazon.com

Chapter 11: "The New Men"

Do NOT get all bent out of shape over Lewis' use of Evolution as an illustration. He uses it to very, very good effect, regardless of anyone's personal view of Evolution.

In this chapter, Lewis uses the illustration of Evolutionary change. Of how man came to be (according to that theory), and the common views of "what's next" for humanity, according to Evolutionary extrapolation.

But what should we expect? We should expect something completely new, not something marginally new. Lewis makes the case that "the Next Step" is already upon us.... Christianity is the Next Step for humanity.

It is not carried out through sexual reproduction.
In this Step, we get a choice -- we are free to reject the change.
Christ is not just the "First" of the new creature, Christ is the new creature. We get the transformation by direct contact with Him!
This Step happens at a different speed -- in a flash!
- We are still "the early Christians"
- our present wickedness, divisions, issues, corruptions and failures are the teething problems of our infancy
- The World keeps thinking we are dying or dead only to find us alive somewhere else
The stakes are high. It's not merely a matter of a life or species not living, if we fail in this step, everything is lost.

Every now and then one meets them. Their very voices and faces are different from ours; stronger, quieter, happier, more radiant. They begin where most of us leave off. They are, I say, recognisable; but you must know what to look for. They will not be very like the idea of 'religious people' which you have formed from your general reading. They do not draw attention to themselves. You tend to think that you are being kind to them when they are really being kind to you. They love you more than other men do, but they need you less. (We must get over wanting to be needed: in some goodish people, specially women, that is the harder of all temptations to resist.) They will usually seem to have a lot of time: you will wonder where it comes from. When you have recognised one of them, you will recognise the next one much more easily. And I strongly suspect (but how should I know?) that they recognise one another immediately and infallibly, across every barrier of colour, sex, class, age, and even of creeds. In that way, to become holy is rather like joining a secret society. To put it at the very lowest, it must be great fun.

These new men are not all alike.
In Christ, we are made wholly into the individuals God created us to be
The Light of God makes our individuality more apparent. The Salt of Christ brings out our unique flavors
If we go to him, clinging to our "selves" or seeking first our true selves, we won't get in.
We have to die to our selves and our desires. THEN, we are filled with the Light and Salt, and God forms us into the selves He intended for us to be.
There are no real Personalities outside of God. Everything outside of god can be explained away with genetics, personal history, opportunity... the trains of history.

At the beginning I said there were Personalities in God. I will go further now. There are no real personalities anywhere else. Until you have given up your self to Him you will not have a real self. Sameness is to be found most among the most 'natural' men, not among those who surrender to Christ. How monotonously alike all the great tyrants and conquerors have been: how gloriously different are the saints. But there must be a real giving up of the self. You must throw it away 'blindly' to so speak. Christ will indeed give you a real personality: but you must not go to Him for the sake of that. As long as your own personality is what you are bothering about you are not going to Him at all. The very first step is to try to forget about the self altogether. Your real, new self (which is Christ's and also yours, and yours just because it is His) will not come as long as you are looking for it. It will come when you are looking for Him. Does that sound strange? The same principle holds, you know, for more everyday matters. Even in social life, you will never make a good impression on other people until you stop thinking about what sort of impression you are making. Even in literature and art, no man who bothers about originality will ever be original whereas if you simply try to tell the truth (without caring twopence how often it has been told before) you will, nine times out of ten, become original without ever having noticed it. The principle runs through all life from top to bottom, Give up yourself, and you will find your real self. Lose your life and you will save it. Submit to death, death of your ambitions and favourite wishes every day and death of your whole body in the end submit with every fibre of your being, and you will find eternal life. Keep back nothing. Nothing that you have not given away will be really yours. Nothing in you that has not died will ever be raised from the dead. Look for yourself, and you will find in the long run only hatred, loneliness, despair, rage, ruin, and decay. But look for Christ and you will find Him, and with Him everything else thrown in.

The End

Parent: Mere Christianity: Leaders' Notes Series

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Mere Christianity: Leaders' Notes - Book 4/Chapter 10

havoc — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 00:05:12 -0600

Parent: Mere Christianity: Leaders' Notes Series

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Chapter 10: "Nice People or New Men"

Jesus is in the process of making Christians perfect, as He is perfect

If so, can we expect all Christians to be nicer than all non-Christians?
Not necessarily -- we have to start from where each Christian is
A Christian should be becoming nicer than the person they were before they started following Christ (before He started his work in them)
A tree is known by it's fruit
When Christians fail to act Christian, we make Christianity unbelievable.
Some people are just born with better dispositions than others...
Christian is a process of transformation... some becoming more Christlike.... sadly, some becoming less... some confused and inconsistent

So, what of the individual?

They should be better people than they would have been without Jesus
They should be becoming 'better' after accepting Jesus
The question is not Person A vs Person B, but Person A with Jesus compared to Person A without Jesus
The evidence will not be the same in every life, and is impossible to judge from the information we have available to us.

Improvements:

Illustration of two factories
The factory manager starting with an old run-down plant will have to make improvements, but must continue putting out the best possible product at the best possible rate (though low) available today.
The factory manager of the plant in good condition may very well put out a higher volume of product, but that does not mean it's the best possible for that plant or at the highest possible volume.
The run-down plant manager will make improvements, but it takes time to get resources available to do that.
We should expect to find some Christians who are "still nasty" people as God works on them

Natural causes:

A person with a placid temper, and friendly disposition is not in a better position than the wretched, insecure person
It is very likely the case that the person of good disposition may not be aware of the need for salvation
... while the "wretch" is painfully aware of their need for God's provision of salvation

God can help us, but He will not force us:

in giving us free will, God has chosen to allow us to choose freely
He will not force us

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Mere Christianity: Leaders' Notes - Book 4/Chapter 9

havoc — Mon, 10 Sep 2007 00:06:52 -0600

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Chapter 9: "Counting the Cost"

Some people are bothered by the words, "Be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect." Some think that maybe it means that if we're not perfect, we fail as Christians. On the contrary, Lewis points out Jesus is working in us to make us perfect -- and will accept nothing less, even though we would.

Example of the child's toothache:

the child only wants something now to make the pain go away now
if he goes to his mother he will get that but...
he will also go to the dentist the next morning...
then the dentist will go messing with every other tooth that has problems
and all the child really wanted was for that one tooth to stop hurting

(An 'ell' is about 45 inches, "It was derived from the length of the arm from the shoulder (or the elbow) to the wrist." wikipedia.com)

Jesus is the same way:

We are driven to him with help for some sin that's eating our lives
He will happily help us with those sins, but....
He will NOT stop there
He intends to set us right, all the way around. "...if once you call Him in, he will give you the full treatment."

This is why he warns us to count the cost before becoming a disciple.

He wants to make us perfect
He will accept nothing less
We do have free will and can push Him away
Whatever the cost, He wants to make us perfect.... like our heavenly Father is perfect

The other side:

Even though his desire is our perfection, He is thrilled with our first, feeble attempts at perfect, even though they all fail!
Just as every parent is thrilled with their child's first, fumbling steps, and yet are not satisfied until they have mastered a healthy, strong walk
God is easy to please, but hard to satisfy.' - George MacDonald

We do not need to be discouraged by our failures. God will keep picking us up every time we try and fail
We are also the only power in the universe that can stop God from the transformational work
We imagine ourselves as humble when we say, "Oh, I'm no saint."
It is a fatal mistake to think that God is through with us before we reach perfection (which we won't in this life, but He will continue working on us through out this life)
We would always be content to stop where are are, but God has much greater plans for us
"To shrink back from that plan is not humility; it is laziness and cowardice. To submit to it is not conceit or megalomania; it is obedience."

Our own efforts will never get us anywhere
Without His help we are hopeless
No holiness or heroism ever witnessed is greater than what He desires to see fulfilled in our lives
"The job will not be completed in this life; but He means to get us as far as possible before death."

We should not be surprised if it's hard... a path of trouble:

After turning to Christ, about the time Jesus has conquered in us the sins we thought were the real problem, trouble comes
"illnesses, money troubles, new kinds of temptation..."
"Because God is forcing [us] on, or up, to a higher level; putting [us] into situations where [we] will have to be very much braver, or more patient, or more loving, than [we] ever dreamed of being before." (Our troubles come from God! Say it ain't so!)
It seems unnecessary to us, or that God is punishing us for some sin to others
This is just the fire and hammer of the forge forming us into something wonderful -- something we can not dream of

Illustration of the house:

minor fixes
then major renovations!
"You thought you were going to be made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace. he intends to come and live in it Himself."

"The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas

nor is it impossible
He is transforming us into creatures that can do it
He says that we are 'gods,' then He sets out to make us 'gods.'

If we let Him - for we can prevent Him, if we choose - He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, a dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said.

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Mere Christianity: Leaders' Notes - Book 4/Chapter 8

havoc — Mon, 3 Sep 2007 00:04:00 -0600

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Chapter 8: "Is Christianity Hard or Easy?"

Putting on Christ is not just one job that Christians have, it is the one job that Christians have.

It's not something only a special class of Christians do, it's what Christianity is all about.
This is completely different from any other idea of 'morality' or 'being good.'

The ordinary idea for young Christians, or non-Christians is

We start with ourselves
We admit that there 'morality' or 'decent behavior' or 'the good of society' has some claim on our lives
Those claims interfere with our own desires
We try to do all of the 'right' things and not do all of the 'wrong' things and have something of ourselves left over to pursue our own interests.
Lewis likens it to paying taxes, and hoping we have something left over to live on.

Following this method of the 'Christian life' leads us to

Being very unhappy, because
- as we try to meet the demands of our conscious, more demands will be placed on us
- our natural life will be starved and frustrated, becoming increasingly angry
leading you to either give up
or become one of those unhappy, grumpy people who 'live for others,' and generally end up being a far greater greater pest than they would have been had they remained selfish

The Christian way is different -- harder and easier

Christ demands all of us
Not some of our time and some of our money and some of our work
ALL of us
Not to torture our natural self
but to kill it
Half measures are no acceptable
Not pruning a branch here and there
Cutting down the hole tree
He wants to whole self -- the good, the bad and the ugly
In it's place, he wants to give us a new self
He wants to give us Himself!
His will will become our own

Harder and easier than trying to do it on our own

One time he says, "Take up your Cross," "in other words, it is like going to be beaten to death in a concentration camp."
The next minute he says, "My yoke is easy and my burden light."
He means both.

We can very often see that the lazy student takes shortcuts, but months later has to work much harder than the student who put the hard work in learning the principles earlier in the school year. The same is true in any craft for field.

The terrible, almost impossible thing is to hand over all of our wishes and fears to Christ

It's far easier for Him to do His work through our submitted lives than for us to try to do 'good' on our own
By trying to do it on our own, we are trying to be honest, chaste and humble, while letting our heart follow the desires of money, pleasure and success
Interestingly enough, Christ told us we couldn't serve two masters
Thorn bushes don't produce figs
Lewis' illustration of a grass field not producing wheat -- it has to go deeper than mowing the grass, it has to be plowed up (deep change) and resown

That is why the real problem of the Christian life comes where people do not usually look for it. It comes the very moment you wake up each morning. All your wishes and hopes for the day rush at you like wild animals. And the first job each morning consists simply in shoving them all back; in listening to that other voice, taking that other point of view, letting that other larger, stronger, quieter life come flowing in. And so on, all day. Standing back from all your natural fussings and frettings; coming in out of the wind.

We can only do it for moments at first

but in those moments His new life is spreading through us, because we are allowing him to work on the right parts of us
it's the difference between paint (which is on the surface), and die or stain, which soaks into the clothe or wood
He never talked idealistic gas
When he said, 'Be prefect,' He meant it. He meant that we must go in for the full treatment.
It is hard, but the compromise we are asking for is impossible
It may be hard for an egg to turn into a bird : it would be a jolly sight harder for it to learn to fly while remaining an egg. We are like eggs at present. And you cannot go on indefinitely being just an ordinary, decent egg. We must be hatched or go bad.

This is what Christianity is all about

The Church is not object or programs: education, buildings, missions, services, etc.
The State is not armies, politicians, building, institutions, laws, police, economics, etc.
The Church exists to draw men into Christ, to make little Christs
If the Church is not doing that, everything else, even the Bible itself, [is] simply a waste of time

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Mere Christianity: Leaders' Notes - Book 4/Chapter 7

havoc — Mon, 27 Aug 2007 00:04:00 -0600

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Chapter 7: "Let's Pretend"

Two pictures:

Beauty and the Beast
A masked man

This is a discussion about practice, the things we do as Christians.

When we say "Father," we are pretending to be sons of God.
- We are 'dressing up' as Christ
- We find it absurd
- We also find that we are instructed to do this
Why pretend?
- We often find that when we pretend to be better than we are, we end up being better than we were
- Very often the only way to get a quality in reality is to start behaving as if you had it already.
- This is why children's games are important -- they forge the characteristics we want them to have as adults.
When we 'dress up as Christ,' when we pray...
- We will usually have some failure of our own come to mind
- If that failure is something we should be doing instead of praying, we should get up and go do it -- now
This is how God shapes us through our prayer life
- Our conscious would answer any question one way
- Our 'putting on Christ' will lead us to a different asnwer
- Attempting to 'put on Christ' leads us to "more like painting a portrait than like obeying a set of rules."
- "And the odd thing is that while in one way it is much harder than keeping rules, in another way it is far easier."
The real Son of God is at our side
- He is turning us into something like Himself
- He is 'injecting' his Zoe into us: the tin coming to life
- The part of us that does not like it is the part that is still 'tin'
Some people may feel like this "Jesus beside us" has never happened
- That other people have helped them, but not an invisible Christ
- Illustration of the woman who wasn't worried about a bread shortage because her family always ate toast!
- Christ very often helps us by helping other people help us
- "He works through Nature, through our own bodies, through books, sometimes through experiences which seem (at the time) anti-Christian."
- Mostly Christ works in us by working on us through each other
Men are 'mirrors' or 'carriers' of Christ to other men
- Sometimes unconsciously
- Sometimes unwittingly through unbelievers
- This is why the Church (the whole body of believers) is so important
It is natural for 'babies' and you believers to not see Christ working through the people who help them
- But we must not remain babies
- We must start to see the Real Helper/Giver
- If we don't realize that it is Christ helping us through others, we are heading for disaster
  - All people fail, stumble, die
  - We must be thankful for those God worked through in our lives, thank them, honor them, love them
  - "But never, never pin your whole faith on any human being: not if he is the best and wisest in the whole world. There are lots of nice things you can do with sand: but do not try building a house on it."
Now we are starting to see what the New Testament is saying
- Christians are born again
- we 'put on Christ'
- Christ is 'formed in us'
- we should have the 'mind of Christ'
These are not fanciful words

Put right out of your head the idea that these are only fancy ways of saying that Christians are to read what Christ said and try to carry it out - as a man may read what Plato or Marx said and try to carry it out. They mean something much more than that. They mean that a real Person, Christ, here and now, in that very room where you are saying your prayers, is doing things to you. It is not a question of a good man who died two thousand years ago. It is a living Man, still as much a man as you, and still as much God as He was when He created the world, really coming and interfering with your very self; killing the old natural self in you and replacing it with the kind of self He has. At first, only for moments. Then for longer periods. Finally, if all goes well, turning you permanently into a different sort of thing; into a new little Christ, a being which, in its own small way, has the same kind of life as God; which shares in His power, joy, knowledge and eternity. And soon we make two other discoveries.

1) We begin to be alarmed at not only what we do, but what we are -- sinners
- We always have excuses for our failings
- Surely what pops out before the man has time to put on a disguise is the truth? If there are rats in a cellar you are most likely to see them if you go in very suddenly. But the suddenness does not create the rats: it only prevents them from hiding. In the same way the suddenness of the provocation does not make me an ill-tempered man it only shows me what an ill-tempered man I am.
- The rats are always there in the cellar, but if you go in shouting and noisily they will have taken cover before you switch on the light. Apparently the rats of resentment and vindictiveness are always there in the cellar of my soul.
- The cellar is our unconscious will
- While we have some control over our actions; we have no direct control over our temperament
- If what we are is more important than what we do, what we do is the evidence of what we are (!)
- So, the changes we need to make, or need made, are beyond our voluntary efforts...
- And this applies to my good actions too. How many of them were done for the right motive? How many for fear of public opinion, or a desire to show off? How many from a sort of obstinacy or sense of superiority which, in different circumstances, might equally have led to some very bad act?
- But we can't give ourselves new motives
- After the first few steps in the Christian life we realise that everything which really needs to be done in our souls can be done only by God.
2) Up untili now, Lewis has been speaking largely as if we did all of the doing
- In reality, God must do everything and anything
- We 'allow' it to be done to us (human responsibility meets divine sovereignty)
- In a sense you might even say it is God who does the pretending. The Three-Personal God, so to speak, sees before Him in fact a self-centred, greedy, grumbling, rebellious human animal. But He says `Let us pretend that this is not a mere creature, but our Son. It is like Christ in so far as it is a Man, for He became Man. Let us pretend that it is also like Him in Spirit. Let us treat it as if it were what in fact it is not. Let us pretend in order to make the pretence into a reality.' God looks at you as if you were a little Christ: Christ stands beside you to turn you into one. I daresay this idea of a divine make-believe sounds rather strange at first. But, is it so strange really? Is not that how the higher thing always raises the lower? A mother teaches her baby to talk by talking to it as if it understood long before it really does. We treat our dogs as if they were 'almost human': that is why they really become `almost human' in the end.

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Theology Rocks Show #64 - "Good Theology Takes Work"

havoc — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 00:01:58 -0600

Like good story telling, good theology takes lots of hard work, lots of good thinking. Unfortunately, it's too easy to take the easy way, and just accept whatever we've been told. We're exhorted in scripture to test everything, and that really does mean EVERYTHING.

The audio is really glitchy, but the content makes it worth publishing (I think). There are some pops, and obviously missing parts of words, but I think you can figure it out. If it's too bad, let us know.

Keep Dan in your prayers. He was in and out of the hospital all last week. Mostly in the hospital, while his girls were starting school and his wife was still adjusting to a new job. He's home now. I got a chance to talk to him [Monday]. He sounded good, but very tired.

If you fill out the contact form (http://www.opendiscipleship.org/contact), Dan will get a copy of it. I think it would make him feel better if some of you would send get well wishes.

Tell someone about the show:

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Send us feedback:
- In either case, you can send us feedback by email at feedback@opendiscipleship.org.
- You can also engage in our Open Forums at the web site.
- If you're as geeked as Jody, you can record your question or comment and email it to us at the feedback address.
- You could send a fax to the voicemail number above, if you wanted to....

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“Theology Rocks - truths to stand on” is a production of OpenDiscipleship.org, "teaching great truths to trustworthy people who are able to pass them on to others."

“Theology Rocks - truths to stand on” is...
Simple, clear talk about theological truths for Christians. A
conversation between two Christian brothers about all kinds of
theological issues, daily issues with theological implications, and how
Christianity should permeate every aspect of the Christian's life.

Mere Christianity: Leaders' Notes - Book 4/Chapter 6

havoc — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:10:00 -0600

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Chapter 6: "Two Notes"

Lewis felt compelled to append, as it were, two notes following the previous chaper:

1) If God wanted many sons instead of toy soldiers, why didn't he just beget many sons? This would have skipped the difficult and painful process of transforming the 'toy soldiers' into sons.

The first part of the answer is fairly easy - the transformation from creature to son would not have been painful had not mankind rebelled against God. The rebellion was the fruit of Free Will. Free Will was the only way to have creatures capable of infinite love and hapiness.
The second part is complicated by the way we see things from within creation. Two identical pennies, which are identical, but not the same vs. two organs of a body which are not alike, but part of the same organ. In the same way, people are organs, part of the organism of humanity.

2) The whole human race is one organism.

individuals are unique, but not unrelated
- it is wrong when we try to make others identical to ourselves.
- it is equally wrong to dismiss others' problems because they are not our own.

I feel a strong desire to tell you - and I expect you feel a strong desire to tell me-which of these two errors is the worse. That is the devil getting at us. He always sends errors into the world in pairs-pairs of opposites. And he always encourages us to spend a lot of time thinking which is the worse. You see why, of course? He relies on your extra dislike of the one error to draw you gradually into the opposite one. But do not let us be fooled. We have to keep our eyes on the goal and go straight through between both errors. We have no other concern than that with either of them.

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Theology Rocks Show #63 - "Selective Memory Theology"

havoc — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 00:01:26 -0600

"For God so loved the world that ... all things work out for the good."

Or something.

Have you ever noticed that when you memorize scripture you tend to memorize only the stuff you like... only the stuff that proves your point?

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Mere Christianity: Leaders' Notes - Book 4/Chapter 5

havoc — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:07:00 -0600

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Chapter 5: "The Obstinate Toy Soldiers"

The Son of God became a man to enable men to become the sons of God.

Editor: Lewis states that he does not know how things would have worked out if man had not rebelled against God. This seems to fly in the face of a) God's sovereignty, and b) free will. It seems to me that when we talked about creatures that can truly love must be allowed true free will meant that men had to have to ability to "go wrong," and God knew we would before he created man... before he created the angels... before he spoke the universe into existence. He knew it, and he created this universe for that purpose. In this universe, man can go wrong, and does go wrong, and God has set this universe, this plan, in motion so that in this universe, he could forge a race of people who freely choose to love him and follow him, then transplant those lovers of God, those sons of God, into a new universe where they can live forever in His presence.

The natural life in each of us is something self-centred, something that wants to be petted and admired, to take advantage of other lives, to exploit the whole universe. And especially it wants to be left to itself: to keep well away from anything better or stronger or higher than it, anything that might make it feel small. It is afraid of the light and air of the spiritual world, just as people who have been brought up to be dirty are afraid of a bath. And in a sense it is quite right. It knows that if the spiritual life gets hold of it, all its self-centredness and self-will are going to be killed and it is ready to fight tooth and nail to avoid that.

Imagine what it would be like to turn the toys you had a child into living creatures.... Then imagine what the process would be like for the toy... a toy tin soldier:

He would be afraid of the change
He would resist the change
He would feel like he was being killed
He would attempt stop you from changing him
"He will not be made into a man if he can help it."

The extent God has gone to to make us into "real people":

The Logos came to earth and became a man -- a real, specific man
In becoming a man, He did not just assume the appearance of a man, but was actually conceived as a fetus and born a baby.
Think of what it would be like for you to become a slug, or a crab.... or a cucumber
The result of the Word becoming flesh was that you finally had one man who was the complete fulfillment of everything that man was intended to be, "one man in whom the created life, derived from His Mother, allowed itself to be completely and perfectly turned into the begotten life."
This man took a life that rejected all of the things the flesh values. Was rejected, misunderstood, abused and eventually killed.
Later, he rose again -- and not just the divine man, but the whole man, the flesh and the divine.
"For the first time we saw a real man. One tin soldier - real tin, just like the rest - had come fully and splendidly alive."

Editor: Do NOT misunderstand this as the Logos taking over a natural body. The human body of Jesus was divinely conceived by the Holy Spirit, but it was fully human, and fully God. It was not a human body 'hijacked' (or possessed) by the spirit of the Word.

Here, the analogy of the tin soldier breaks down.

unlike tin soldiers, all humans across all history are connected to each other. Lewis's illustration of "the way God see us" is great.
With Jesus, something begins to effect the whole human mass in a new way.
The effect of Jesus starts at one point, but it spreads to effect even the people who lived before Jesus, and the people who have never heard of him.

What is the effect that Jesus has on the whole human mass?

The transition from biological life to spiritual life has been begun for us
The work of salvation, of transformation has already, in principle, been done for all people
Each individual has to receive that salvation/transformation alone

Of course, you can express this in all sorts of different ways. You can say that Christ died for our sins. You may say that the Father has forgiven us because Christ has done for us what we ought to have done. You may say that we are washed in the blood of the Lamb. You may say that Christ has defeated death. They are all true. If any of them do not appeal to you, leave it alone and get on with the formula that does. And, whatever you do, do not start quarrelling with other people because they use a different formula from yours.

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Theology Rocks Show #62 - "More Children in Worship - Thoughts on Thoughts From John Wilkerson"

havoc — Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:01:25 -0600

Way back in April (2007) John Wilkerson of JesusGeek.info dropped us a line concerning his experience with children in worship. We did respond in a timely fashion.... but it only just now got published.

Sorry for the delay, John!

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Mere Christianity: Leaders' Notes - Book 4/Chapter 4

havoc — Mon, 6 Aug 2007 00:05:02 -0600

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Chapter 4: "Good Infection"

Example of the books and the relations between, then removing time... so the relationships existed as they appear without a time when the relationships didn't exist.
This is an introduction to thinking about things outside of time.
Uses the example of a cube being made up of six squares, but remaining a cube...

The Trinity:

God the Father
God the Son, Jesus, The Word, the Logos
God the Holy Spirit, the Spirit, Comforter, Counselor

Editor: I am convinced that the language of begetting and begotten used by the authors of the Bible are inadequate to fully explain God. We know that the Logos (Word), existed from "before time," and before (in time) the Word took on human flesh in the person of Jesus. I am very uncomfortable with Lewis' analogies of the Son flowing from the Father, "like light from a lamp, or heat from a fire, or thoughts from a mind."

Lewis' images:

The Son 'streaming forth' from the Father like light...
The Son is the expression of the Father
These analogies break down because the lamp and the light, the Father and the expression are two things, not two persons of the same thing... "that is what always happens when you go away from the words of the Bible."
Only God will be able to explain himself, [but he is still limited by what his creatures can comprehend.]
The relationship between the Father and the Son is one of love.

Lewis explores "God is Love" in the context of multiple persons being required for Love. That God has been Love eternal, not only since the beginning of creation.

The Christian God is dynamic (reflected in His love):

And that, by the way, is perhaps the most important difference between Christian and all other religions: that in Christianity God is not a static thing - not even a person - but a dynamic, pulsating activity, a life, almost a kind of drama. Almost, if you will not think me irreverent, a kind of dance.

Lewis here begins to describe the Spirit (Holy Spirit) as the being that is the relationship between the Father and the Son. While this is a beautiful image, it does not seem to be supported by scripture.

The person of the Spirit is the most vague of the persons of the Trinity. Lewis explains, "In the Christian life you are not usually looking at Him. He is always acting through you." There's a lot to that.

the Spirit stands with us
prays through us
works through us to transform us into God's sons

So, what's the point in this exercise?

It matters more than anything else in the world. The whole dance, or drama, or pattern of this three-Personal life is to be played out in each one of us: or (putting it the other way round) each one of us has got to enter that pattern, take his place in that dance. There is no other way to the happiness for which we were made. Good things as well as bad, you know, are caught by a kind of infection. If you want to get warm you must stand near the fire: if you want to be wet you must get into the water. If you want joy, power, peace, eternal life, you must get close to, or even into, the thing that has them. They are not a sort of prizes which God could, if He chose, just hand out to anyone. They are a great fountain of energy and beauty spurting up at the very centre of reality. If you are close to it, the spray will wet you: if you are not, you will remain dry. Once a man is united to God, how could he not live forever? Once a man is separated from God, what can he do but wither and die?

The physical life we have is made, not begotten
The Christ life that we get is the begotten life, but must be placed into us in a union with Christ
In sharing in this begotten life, we become the Sons of God as the Spirit works in/through us
The Son/Logos became a man so that He could spread this Zoe/begotten life to us, like a 'good infection'

Every Christian is to become a little Christ. The whole purpose of becoming a Christian is simply nothing else.

Parent: Mere Christianity: Leaders' Notes Series

Buy a copy of Mere Christianity from Amazon.com

OpenDiscipleship.org Sidecast 08

admin — Thu, 2 Aug 2007 00:01:54 -0600

Dan's up and around! Yay! Get the scoop on what's happenin' in the OD.o universe.

Theology Rocks Show #61 - "False Teachings, the Damage They Do to the Church and Dealing With Them"

havoc — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:01:33 -0600

In 1 Timothy chapter 4, Paul talks to the young pastor about teachings that erode the joy of the gospel, steal from the Church and make the truth that the Church teaches look needlessly foolish. "Godless myths and old wives' tales" that are to be avoided. We should instead train ourselves to be godly. How many times has the Church been dragged into debates about good things that should be outlawed, when everything God has made is good?

Somebody has to stop the nonsense, and in doing so, we can save both ourselves and our hearers.

Keep Dan in your prayers. Dan's doing okay. He still needs your prayers. We're supposed to get together tomorrow for a session. Look for an OD Sidecast this week (hopefully!).

Tell someone about the show:
- If you like the show, tell a friend about it!
- If you don't like it, tell someone you don't like!

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“Theology Rocks - truths to stand on” is a production of OpenDiscipleship.org, "teaching great truths to trustworthy people who are able to pass them on to others."

“Theology Rocks - truths to stand on” is... Simple, clear talk about theological truths for Christians. A conversation between two Christian brothers about all kinds of theological issues, daily issues with theological implications, and how Christianity should permeate every aspect of the Christian's life.

Mere Christianity: Leaders' Notes - Book 4/Chapter 3

havoc — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 00:02:52 -0600

Parent: Mere Christianity: Leaders' Notes Series

Buy a copy of Mere Christianity from Amazon.com

Chapter 3: "Time and Beyond Time"

This chapter discusses Time as it relates to Prayer.

We live through time. In this reality, we flow in one direction with time. All that is behind us is lost to us, except in our memory. All that is before us is unknown to us. What Lewis is attempting to address here is, "How can God listen to everyone in the world praying at the same time?"

God created time
God exists beyond time ("outside and above")
God is not restricted to time

We live in this tiny window of Now, the past behind us, the future before us
God can see all of the "Now's" all of all time
Example of the author writing the book with the character in the book living in a separate, independent timeline.
"But God has no history. He is too completely real to have one."
In human language we use terms like "foreknowledge," and "foresaw," and "predestined."
- These terms are all locked into human reason and human language.
- We really don't have language to adequately deal with God's presence outside of time.
- Because of God's presence beyond time, He is able to tell the prophets what is in their future because it is not future to God, but present reality.
- This allows a view of foreknowledge and predestination that does not violate, in any way, free will and human responsibility.
- Humans retain personal responsibility in light of "predestination" without the two conflicting

Parent: Mere Christianity: Leaders' Notes Series

Buy a copy of Mere Christianity from Amazon.com

Theology Rocks Show #60 - "Getting Doctrines Right... and How We Get Them Wrong"

havoc — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 00:01:00 -0600

Primarily it's a discussion about the importance of the doctrine of the resurection, but we discuss a whole range of things, and how we, as humans, tend to screw them up. If there's a particular doctrine you'd like to discuss with us, let us know.

Keep Dan in your prayers. No update from Dan this week. I did get an email forward from him, but that was all. I'll check on him later today.

Tell someone about the show:
- If you like the show, tell a friend about it!
- If you don't like it, tell someone you don't like!

You can subscribe to this podcast at iTunes: iTunes
You can subscribe to our RSS feed: RSS feed

“Theology Rocks - truths to stand on” is a production of OpenDiscipleship.org, "teaching great truths to trustworthy people who are able to pass them on to others."

“Theology Rocks - truths to stand on” is... Simple, clear talk about theological truths for Christians. A conversation between two Christian brothers about all kinds of theological issues, daily issues with theological implications, and how Christianity should permeate every aspect of the Christian's life.